Question: Should we change the current parking rules?
Our current neighborhood parking rules are:
"No Parking 12:30 AM to 5:30 AM & Permit Parking only at Other Times.
Violators will be cited."
There is a desire that the parking rules be modified so that overnight parking will be allowed with permit. Each home is allowed 2 permits, but the current rules do not allow any parking after 12:30 AM, even with a permit. There is a petition going around for owners who want to make this change. If there is enough interest, we will have to do a formal vote within the HOA. If we reach a 2/3rds majority in favor of the change, then the final step will be to take it to the city. In an attempt to present a fair view for those making the decision of whether or not we change the current parking situation, we present here a “Pro and Con” list for this decision.
CONS
(reasons why one might be against changing current parking rules):
(reasons why one might be against changing current parking rules):
#1: One of the biggest worries about our neighborhood, especially at the beginning, was that it would be turned into a neighborhood of BYU student housing, much like the neighborhoods west of us. In allowing permit parking overnight, it would make it so much easier for these homes to be rented out to a large group of students who can park an additional 2 cars on the street.
#2: If overnight permit is allowed, it would also allow people the option of parking large RVs, or work trucks/trailers, or “junk” cars that not only take up a large portion of the street but could even extend into their neighbor’s curb as well. These large vehicles represent a dangerous obstacle as it makes it difficult for cars pulling out onto the street to see children playing or to see approaching cars. Additionally, it creates unsightly views for those living around it.
#3: Another concern is that once we allow cars to park on the street with permits, there will be people who will try to “blend” in with the permitted cars as we are so close to student housing. In the summer, it can also allow people to “blend” in to avoid paying for parking at Seven Peaks Water Park. The fact is, Provo Police are not going to be patrolling 24/7, and it makes it much harder for them to spot cars with no permits after dark. Right now, as long as they see a car parked after 12:30 AM, it’s automatically ticketed; if we have permits, they would have to pick out specific cars parked with no permits and we cannot guarantee that they will be able to do a thorough job.
#4: Currently, the city allows homes 18 visitors’ passes per year. If someone wishes to hold a party, they can apply for these visitor permits that will allow extra cars to park on the street. They also allow one 7-day permit per household per year as well to allow a visitor to park during the day for 7 days. In addition, the city lists certain holidays as “free” days when anyone can park because there will not be patrols out.
PROS
(reasons one might be in favor of changing current parking rules):
(reasons one might be in favor of changing current parking rules):
#1: In order for a household to get 2 permits, we have to pay a fee each year. If we have to pay for these permits, it’s only reasonable that we should be able to park our cars in the street overnight. For those of us who live closer to student housing, even after the 12:30 PM curfew, there is still a constant stream of students and visitors who will park illegally because Provo Police only comes through once in a while.
#2: It's not that we don't want a parking system; the change we want to make is for overnight parking to be available for those with a PERMIT. We just want to adjust it to fit our lifestyles better (ie. family occasion like blessings, baptisms, and showers, etc.) We could also entertain other options such as:
a) Not paying for permits or paying less.
b) Instead of having to pay for the $2/ day parking permits and only being allowed 18 per year; maybe get the city to have some sort of online application or something to apply for special events easier and without having to pay. (The city is closed on Fridays, and it is so hard when we host showers or ward activities.)
c) No Sunday during the day enforcement.
We just want to see some adjustments that allow us to host family friendly events without having to stress about parking.
#3: There are some of us without the garage capacity to hold multiple cars. It would be nice to be able to park our cars in front of our own homes without the nighttime limitations. It is also difficult for families with children drivers and for those visiting. This is not a free-for-all; each household can only have TWO permits and so only 2 vehicles would be allowed to be parked on the street.
HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD? SOMETHING TO SAY?
After reading the above arguments, please use the comments section to add anything you feel would be important for everyone to understand before reaching their decision. We understand this is a sensitive issue, but please be respectful and courteous when making your points. Thank you.
17 comments:
It is a slippery slope to allow overnight parking in our neighborhood.
There are few neighborhoods in Provo that have the look and feel of our neighborhood and that is partly due to the fact that we don't have cars parked all along the streets.
There is also the safety/crime issue. It is easy to tell now when someone should not be there. It makes it more difficult for criminals to hang out in our neighborhoods. You look out your window, it is late at night, there is a car parked, you call the cops.
Please don't open the door to our neighborhood being just like any other. We have something unique and should protect it.
6 years ago when we were looking to purchase a new home, my wife and I looked for a place where everyone was required to park in their garage or driveway. We did this because the neighborhood we were moving from had cars parked on the streets because their garages where full of stuff and they couldn't fit their vehicles in the garage. I loved this neighborhood because the streets were wide and open, you could see and enjoy the landscaping without vehicles blocking it and as for safety, I was excited for my kids to be able to play in the neighborhood and have the vehicles be able to see them if they stepped out on the street.
We have an amazing neighborhood! Please keep it as it is.
We like having no parking during the day and we really have no need to park on the street at night (but I can understand why some might), but some changes still could be made. We basically agree with everything on the pros list. Parking is so hard to host any sort of function with the way the it is now. If we could have a different system for buying the day passes (shouldn't be limited per year, shouldn't cost $2 a piece, etc...) it would work a lot better. Maybe the online application for events or activities might work better. I agree at lowering the cost of the passes. It's a street, not a covered parking garage. Open Sundays is a great idea too, but I can see students might take advantage of that.
In summary, parties/activities are our biggest problem. We don't want to be out directing traffic when we are busy preparing and hosting get-togethers.
Our biggest concern is someone's rv/trailers, etc., being parked on the street indefinitely if we allow overnight parking. (Along with suspicious cars. I really don't want to have to walk outside in the dark of night to see if the suspicious vehicle sitting outside my house has a permit or not. I'd rather just call the police, and have them deal with it for me.)
I agree with having people using their garages for parking cars. Even people with a two-car garage should have enough room for at least 4 cars, folks with a three-car garage or pads on the side, even more.
We lived in a suburb of Cleveland (with a large college population) that had no overnight parking in the entire city. It had many areas of duplexes & triplexes that shared a one lane driveway to the rear of the property that had little room to park your car. It was a city ordinance that the owner of these homes had to have enough parking room for all occupants' vehicles to park without blocking the driveway. Furthermore, if we had a guest with a car that didn't fit according to this law, we could call the police and give them the plate # & make/model of the vehicle and they would excuse it for that night or 2 or 3.
It's an idea! Let us look at how other communities do things and figure out something that can make us all happy.
Yes, it would be easier for those that have more drivers and vehicles, but easier isn't always better. During the day we can use our passes and in the evening pull our cars into the garage & driveway.
We recently spent $1000 to add a concrete pad to the side of our house to accommodate parking when our family comes to visit. But even with this pad, our fairly large driveway, a two car garage, and two parking permits, our ten brothers and sisters with their kids and families overflow out of our driveway during family activities.
We bought this large home as a place for our family to gather when they visit from out of town, and yet the parking restrictions severely curtail our ability to use our home for its intended purpose. We invested a great deal to landscape our yard up to the standard of the neighborhood, what a shame it would be that the neighborhood restrict our ability to share that yard with our family for a few hours at a time. What a waste to have a neighborhood full of such beautiful and large homes with nice yards and yet not be able to have parties and entertain friends and our entire families!
We don't need overnight parking most of the time, but again, if we want to have a family reunion or guests, we are limited not by our bedroom or bathroom capacity, but our neighborhood parking restrictions. If we have to pay for permits, at least those permits should be allowed to stay overnight on a limited basis. And why should we be allowed such a restricted number per year? I like Nicole's idea of being able to call in (or email) tag #s for occasional visitors who are not "residents."
I personally wouldn't mind parking police staying out of my driveway, too. I've received one too many tickets for being 3 - 12" over the sidewalk at 4 am. That seems to be a little over the top when it comes to policing the neighborhood parking.
I have lived in neighborhoods throughout the U.S. that do not allow RVs or trailers to be parked on the streets, ever. Yet those same neighborhoods allow for residents and guests to park cars in front of their home. Allowing cars does not necessarily allow for RVs or trailers.
Finding a solution that works for all residents will be challenging, but it's doable. Our neighborhood consists of those who have been here since the beginning and were sold on how they envisioned the neighborhood with those of us who have bought into the neighborhood and brought our properties up to that vision. As we work flexibly with each other, I am sure we will find solutions that maintain the vision we share, while supporting a family-friendly community. We all want a neighborhood that is safe, and yet don't we want to be accessible to our friends, families, and congregations?
I visit women regularly who live on 1100 E, 1200 E, and 560 N. Rarely do these women have cars from BYU students parked in front of their home. They are just as close to Belmont and BYU, yet they claim that it's not a problem for them. There is parking allowed on 700 N, yet it's not packed with BYU students parking there. In some ways, I feel that our neighborhood is so afraid of students taking over the streets that our freedom to gather ourselves is severely curtailed.
While I understand The Saudi Sandbox comment and do desire to periodically have parking available, I must disagree with the statement that we won't have issues with Students parking on our streets. I live at 1359 east 580 north and have vehicles constantly parking on private property behind my house with no care for who it belongs to. They do this because they can't park on the street. If parking was opened up, these cars would be parked in front and to the side of my home. I know they would be because they already do and get tickets for it. If I spend an hour outside in my yard I will see no less than a dozen cars look at the no parking sign and then leave. If those signs weren't there I would have a dozen cars parked there within an hour.
As for ticketing you for being on the sidewalk? That is ridiculous. I guess I have been lucky for the past 6 years because that hasn't happened to me. I would be disappointed if it had.
Again, open parking may not be an issue for the entire community but for those of us that live right next to Bellmont and right next to Seven Peaks, this would be a large problem.
Let's not change anything on the parking conditions. This is a great and unique neighborhood. Please, let's keep it that way. For some who have not lived in the neighborhood very long to know what it was like when there was open parking, I suggest contacting those who have lived here long enough to hear their comments on the before and after of our neighborhood.
I have lived here for a little over 3 years and have family coming and going almost every day, I have had baby showers, birthday parties, teen parties, yard sales, etc. I know for a fact that if you call the police officer in charge of parking in our neighborhood and advice him of your event, they won't bother you. If we change the parking, it will open a Pandora's box! On another note, I think it would be a good idea to wait and see what happens with parking on Seven Peaks Blvd. As for overnight parking, if you have guests staying at your home for a short period of time. Give me a call and they are welcomed to park on my driveway, :o)
The police most definitely give tickets even if you are a few inches over the bumper and those tickets are $30. We know of SEVERAL people who have gotten them. I have tried to call the police to notify them of an event and they have not been helpful at all. I have also been told that because I used my 18 passes for a bridal shower I hosted during the year that on the day of my child's baptism I could not apply for any extra permits, and I had to pay for the 18 (which is completely ridiculous) besides the fact that Provo City is not open on Friday, which makes getting them difficult for a Saturday event. Hosting ward events is also a nightmare because there is no where for anyone to park. There needs to be a happy medium that allows us to enjoy having our family events without all the stress of worrying about parking.
This debate is getting off subject.
This is about OVER NIGHT PERMIT PARKING
Not daytime. We need to take this one step at a time.
A lot of these comments are about daytime issues and a need for daytime parking when we have daytime gatherings.
With all due respect to Anonymous, maybe the debate should include other aspects of parking restrictions that HOA members would like changed.
Would neighbors rather see the first change allow for more passes per year or free passes for neighborhood members than for overnight parking? If we are going to change gradually, maybe that would pacify more people than parking on the street at night.
It just seems like such a waste to me that we have a gorgeous neighborhood with beautiful landscaped homes and yet we are so afraid of street parking being taken over Seven Peaks or Belmont students (and I understand those are valid concerns) that we are not able to entertain but once a year.
Maybe the debate should include more than just overnight parking. If not now, when?
The parking rules are one of the reasons that we bought our home in this neighborhood. It is one if the things that make this neighborhood great. Homeowners worked hard in the past to make the parking rules what they currently are. Everyone who has moved into the neighborhood since then essentially "agreed" to following the current rules when they purchased their homes. Please keep the neighborhood nice by keeping the parking exactly the way it is now! Some of you may think you have problems with the current parking rules, but there will be countless problems to deal with if we make even one change. For those of you who complain about not having room to park cars for events, family parties, etc.... You are more than welcome to put cars in my driveway for a few hours! Just ywgive me a call. I'm sure there are are other neighbors who can occasionally loan you some driveway space too.
Unfortunately for some residents new to the neighborhood, the way that Foothill Park HOA was filed with the city meant that new buyers were told there was NO HOA by both real estate agents and title companies. I believe that this oversight was corrected mid 2010.
While we realize that some people don't want to change current rules, if changes could be minimal and yet fit the needs of both sides of the debate why does the parking need to stay exactly the same? It would be nice if we could work together to find a solution.
It is very nice of everyone to offer drive ways to be used for get-togethers when we don't have enough space, but it really doesn't solve it. That is hard to implement when you have people over. You have to have someone out directing parking the whole time. It's basically like you need a valet service for every activity you host. It's an added stress, worry, and problem for you and your guests.
I have never heard of telling the parking police about your parties and having them actually work with you.
We spent money on extending our driveway on the side too, like Saudi Sandbox, and it just isn't enough sometimes.
It’s very unfortunate that some residents have been singled out by parking enforcement. It’s also unfortunate that the parking rules have made people reluctant or stopped them from having friends and family over. We’ve had a few family gatherings. (I always forget to get the temporary passes, until Friday when they’re) We’ve had no problem when my family parked on the street. I basically told them that if they get a ticket, it was my fault, and we’d pay for it. I’ve also allowed neighbors the use of my driveway for their gatherings. When one the neighbors had a farewell for their son’s mission, we had cars parked all around the block. I don’t recall those 30 (more or less) cars all getting tickets. There are even some residents I’ve heard about that have “agreements” with PE to not ticket their visitors.
There was a time I needed the rules enforced. There was a women, who would park in front of and on the side of my house day or night (basically seemed to be on drugs). She was sometimes with guys who looked very shady and she would also dump her trash on the street. (I know there are others who know who I am talking about) I talked to this woman and she was very uncouth to me and retaliated. I called the police to send out PE to get her away from me and use the parking rules to get her to stop stalking me. They talked to her. They said she could park there as long as she was in her car or 10 ft. from it (sitting on the curb). They wouldn’t ticket her or tell her to leave. (She lived in Arlington and finally moved)
I like our parking rules. I’m sharing this experience to say how inconsistent the parking authority is. By allowing more leniency with our parking rules, they may still NOT be enforced at times, and cause even more frustration to those people who didn’t want it changed in the first place.
On another note, I think one reason we have problems with “students” parking in my area of the neighborhood (580 N), is because of Belmont and Arlington not providing adequate parking for their residents.
There are different problems people deal with in different areas of the neighborhood. If you are near:
-The middle, you may not experience the frustrations others do with unwanted parkers.
-The mountain, you might have issues with transients and night parkers doing who-knows-what inside their cars.
-If you’re near Seven Peaks you might have Seven Peaks issues.
-If you’re near the condos you have “student” problems.
You may even be experience multiple issues listed above.
Remember that ANY changes (big or small) affect us all.
Overnight Passes:
An option we haven't considered that would not drastically change anything is implementing overnight passes. Like temporary one-day passes, we could have temporary overnight passes that are limited (perhaps no more than 3 per quarter). No RV/trailer parking, nothing permanent; the street signs may not even have to change. Only residents can get them and they will cost a small fee like our one-day passes. The purpose of these passes would be for us to have an over-night guest. The one-time use pass would have a start and end day listed for everyone to see, perhaps a 3 day/2 night pass. Our daytime pink $15/year passes would remain day only, because it is safe to assume they might be abused if allowed at night also.
Friends, many of us do not have family who live in Utah and we love to invite them for a several night stay a few times a year. For those of us without extra driveway space and concrete pads, it is simply not an option to use the driveway, especially when we leave for work at 5am and are blocked by our guests' cars. I ask that you please consider this simple overnight pass option, even if you cannot see yourself personally using it.
It seems that Provo also needs to get its act together and make it possible for us to buy/print-off our passes online (we may need to do a good deal of nagging to get the ball rolling on this). This is common practice in several other HOAs I've lived in and is extremely convenient for everyone.
I'm with Kay on the temporary overnight passes thru the City. We can then ammend the HOA rules to include city regulations (which would include this temporary overnight paid permit). As for the day passes, I am all for working with the city to find a more streamlined and less expensive way to get our temporary day passes!
The student/Belmont parking is still an issue. Recently I started frequenting Locust Lane in the early mornings (a road north of our neighborhood off of 820 North). I see lots of cars parked there at 6:45am. I have counted 25 to 30 every time I have counted. The adjacent church parking lot is empty but the road is always full. Upon asking, I was told that the Belmont tenants park the cars there. This is a couple of blocks away from their home, but they obviously need a place to park their cars.
If we aren’t careful then we will most likely end up with a street full of cars that belong to people we won’t know or recognize. In 2005 and 2006, we had lots of them park in front of our house and they were quite loud at 1 and 2 in the morning. Often they would even climb the fence in our backyard because that was quicker and easier than walking around or getting a ride.
I also don’t appreciate the extra traffic and trash (in our neighborhood) in the summer from the Seven Peaks patrons.
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