Debate HOA Land

Question: Should the HOA deed away its

Commonly Owned Property?

Currently, our HOA owns 3 easements and 1 retention basin. 

These easements were part of the original design when the development was planned so that there would be walkways to connect other parts of the neighborhood. The retention basin was something Provo City decided to put in the care of the HOA. 

Most of the HOA fees that we collect go into maintaining the retention basin and for insurance purposes.  The insurance covers all 84 units of Foothill Park HOA so that if anyone were to get hurt on these commonly owned properties and sue the HOA, it would help cover a portion of the cost of the lawsuit. The board feels that it would be in the interest of the residents if we deed these properties to the owners of homes adjacent to them as to minimize our liability.  In order for this to pass, it would require a 2/3rds affirmative vote from the homeowners. In an attempt to present a fair view for those making the decision of whether or not we should deed away these properties, we present here a “Pro and Con” list to help with this decision. 

CONS
(reasons one might be against deeding away HOA properties):

#1:  Several of us waited years for this subdivision to open, and bought our lots, and build our homes to be in a community as it was outlined in the master plan.  There was a model in the sales office that showed what this subdivision would look like.  We bought into the plan, and invested our time and money into that.  To take that away is not only saying that what we wanted doesn't matter, it is also very hard for those of us who paid top dollar for our land.  Several people want an HOA and want the common areas as outlined with trails to access other parts of the neighborhood, and so that our kids could play in a large common area.  We like the look of the open space.

#2:  We paid for our land cost per square foot.  It would not be fair to simply give extra land to those who live closest to the areas.  If we're giving land away, we want our fair share.

#3:  In speaking with several people from the city, there are some who don't even believe this is an option.  No one at the city could give us an answer as to if this was possible or not. 

#4:  $100/year is not a big deal.  If the HOA has really been able to collect as we heard they were, there should be plenty of money in the account to actually finish the trails, and make the common areas look good.  We prefer for pay that to keep what we were sold on.

PROS
(reasons one might be in favor of deeding away HOA properties):

#1:  Deeding away of these properties would result in the HOA having no more properties to take care of so we can eventually get rid of the $100 HOA fee.  This would also limit our liability as a whole.  Currently, if anyone gets hurt on any of the commonly owned properties, they can sue all 84 units within the HOA.  We have insurance that covers some of the cost, but not all of it.  If we can get these properties to become private properties, it would greatly reduce our liability.

#2: Two out of the three easements have already been landscaped and they are being taken care of.  They were never used by anyone in the neighborhood and serve no purpose to the community except as a liability.

 #3:  In any development in the city will require that certain property be set aside for drainage basins, roads, sidewalks, easements, etc. These do affect the original sales price of that property as well as the quality of the neighborhood and therein-future value. The property does have value and deeding it to a few specific homeowners might seem overly generous, even at the expense of other HOA members. However, the land is not being used, has little to no practical value for those not adjoining it, and yet represents investment, maintenance, replacement, and general liability. We believe that all members of the HOA will get a bargain if we encourage those adjoining to assume ownership and all responsibility.

#4:  This whole process has already been verified with the City of Provo.  Emily Ess spoke with Nathan Murray in the Provo City Planning division (NMurray@provo.utah.gov) and he was very positive about what the HOA wanted to do.  He also sent over the forms we would be required to fill out in order to amend the subdivision plat should we get the required 2/3rds vote.   Emily Ess has also spoken with Richard Hatfield ((801) 852-6783), the Storm Water Division Manager, specifically about the retention basin.  He was very agreeable in what the HOA wanted to do as long as it didn’t interfere with the city’s use of the retention basin.  The only problems we would encounter, according to the lawyer we consulted, would be if people within the HOA were to object.  That is why the voting documents have to be notarized and will be filed away in case of objections in the future.

#5:    The 4 homes that would split the retention basin also have to keep the basin as is.  They cannot change much to the existing plot of land for their own purpose.  Another option that Richard Hatfield mentioned is to deed the land to Provo Parks and Recreation and see if they would be willing to make it a picnic/park area.  We have not followed up with this option as of yet.

HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD? SOMETHING TO SAY?

After reading the above arguments, please use the comments section to add anything you feel would be important for everyone to understand before reaching their decision.  We understand this is a sensitive issue, but please be respectful and courteous when making your points.  Thank you.

Debate Parking

Question: Should we change the current parking rules?

Our current neighborhood parking rules are:

"No Parking 12:30 AM to 5:30 AM & Permit Parking only at Other Times.

Violators will be cited."

There is a desire that the parking rules be modified so that overnight parking will be allowed with permit.  Each home is allowed 2 permits, but the current rules do not allow any parking after 12:30 AM, even with a permit.  There is a petition going around for owners who want to make this change. If there is enough interest, we will have to do a formal vote within the HOA.  If we reach a 2/3rds majority in favor of the change, then the final step will be to take it to the city.  In an attempt to present a fair view for those making the decision of whether or not we change the current parking situation, we present here a “Pro and Con” list for this decision. 

CONS
(reasons why one might be against changing current parking rules):

#1:  One of the biggest worries about our neighborhood, especially at the beginning, was that it would be turned into a neighborhood of BYU student housing, much like the neighborhoods west of us.  In allowing permit parking overnight, it would make it so much easier for these homes to be rented out to a large group of students who can park an additional 2 cars on the street.

#2:  If overnight permit is allowed, it would also allow people the option of parking large RVs, or work trucks/trailers, or “junk” cars that not only take up a large portion of the street but could even extend into their neighbor’s curb as well.  These large vehicles represent a dangerous obstacle as it makes it difficult for cars pulling out onto the street to see children playing or to see approaching cars.  Additionally, it creates unsightly views for those living around it.

#3:  Another concern is that once we allow cars to park on the street with permits, there will be people who will try to “blend” in with the permitted cars as we are so close to student housing.  In the summer, it can also allow people to “blend” in to avoid paying for parking at Seven Peaks Water Park.  The fact is, Provo Police are not going to be patrolling 24/7, and it makes it much harder for them to spot cars with no permits after dark.  Right now, as long as they see a car parked after 12:30 AM, it’s automatically ticketed; if we have permits, they would have to pick out specific cars parked with no permits and we cannot guarantee that they will be able to do a thorough job.

#4:  Currently, the city allows homes 18 visitors’ passes per year.  If someone wishes to hold a party, they can apply for these visitor permits that will allow extra cars to park on the street.  They also allow one 7-day permit per household per year as well to allow a visitor to park during the day for 7 days.  In addition, the city lists certain holidays as “free” days when anyone can park because there will not be patrols out.

PROS
(reasons one might be in favor of changing current parking rules):

#1:  In order for a household to get 2 permits, we have to pay a fee each year.  If we have to pay for these permits, it’s only reasonable that we should be able to park our cars in the street overnight.  For those of us who live closer to student housing, even after the 12:30 PM curfew, there is still a constant stream of students and visitors who will park illegally because Provo Police only comes through once in a while.  

#2:  It's not that we don't want a parking system; the change we want to make is for overnight parking to be available for those with a PERMIT.  We just want to adjust it to fit our lifestyles better (ie. family occasion like blessings, baptisms, and showers, etc.)  We could also entertain other options such as:

a) Not paying for permits or paying less. 

b) Instead of having to pay for the $2/ day parking permits and only being allowed 18 per year; maybe get the city to have some sort of online application or something to apply for special events easier and without having to pay. (The city is closed on Fridays, and it is so hard when we host showers or ward activities.)

c) No Sunday during the day enforcement. 

We just want to see some adjustments that allow us to host family friendly events without having to stress about parking. 

#3:  There are some of us without the garage capacity to hold multiple cars.  It would be nice to be able to park our cars in front of our own homes without the nighttime limitations.  It is also difficult for families with children drivers and for those visiting. This is not a free-for-all; each household can only have TWO permits and so only 2 vehicles would be allowed to be parked on the street.  

HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD? SOMETHING TO SAY?

After reading the above arguments, please use the comments section to add anything you feel would be important for everyone to understand before reaching their decision.  We understand this is a sensitive issue, but please be respectful and courteous when making your points.  Thank you.

For Sale

Neighbors' home is on the market

1372 E 580 N

If you are trying to sell or rent your home and you'd like us to post it on the blog, please email me. I'd be more than happy.

Update on HOA Finances

Hello!

I spoke with our accountant recently, and she apologized for the confusion about the worksheet on our HOA finances.  She has prepared a complete financial analysis for us dating from 2007 to 2011.  The ending bank balance we have as of today is $ 8,976.09.  (This does not include a few HOA dues we receive during the annual meeting.)

If anyone would like the complete financial analysis. Please email me and I will get a copy to you.

Thank you,
Emily

HOA Meeting

I like to thank everyone who came to our HOA Meeting and Dessert Mingle.  I just wanted to let anyone who are missing shoes know that the Baileys have them.  Also, anyone who didn't get a packet, please email me at essemily at gmail dot com and I will get an electronic copy to you.

I am happy that we were able to come together as a neighborhood to discuss some vital issues and I am grateful too for our new HOA board who will be donating their time and energy into promoting important issues for our neighborhood.  Our new board members are:
Joanna E
Melanie B
Christine W

I will be around as well to help with anything I can.  I have a great hope that this is the beginning of a brighter future for our HOA.  Thank you for checking in with the blog and I hope you will spread the news to your neighbors as we began the debates about deeding away of HOA-owned land and about parking issues.

Also, I wanted to know if there are any objections to the HOA sponsoring a couple of people from our neighborhood to be CERT certified?  Since the classes start soon on September 21/22, we should move on this as soon as possible.  Are there anyone who would be especially interested in doing this?  The classes are every week for 8 weeks with one mock disaster on a Saturday.  You can either choose to go on Tuesday or Wednesday nights from 6:30 - 9:00 pm.  It is being held at the Provo City Center (351 West Center Street).  The HOA will reimburse you for the $45 class fee plus the $4 book fee.  If you are interested, please list your name and contact information in the comments section. 

Sincerely,
Emily